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Secrets of a Lottery Lawyer: How to Handle Winning Millions | Kurt Panouses Interview

Published on: 14th August, 2024

Podcaster Timothy Schultz interviews renowned lottery lawyer Kurt Panouses, who has represented winners of hundreds of millions, including a $1.05 billion Mega Millions jackpot. Discover expert advice on cash vs. annuity payments, claiming your prize anonymously, and more. Whether you're curious about how to handle a big win or just interested in the world of lottery winners, this interview is a must-watch!

Topics Covered:

Choosing lump sum vs. annuity

What to do if you win the lottery

Staying anonymous as a winner

Advice for lottery players

Don't forget to like, comment, subscribe, and share!

🌟 KURT PANOUSES SOCIAL & WEBSITE:

TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@lotteryattorneycpa

Website: https://www.lotterylawyercpa.com/

Website: https://www.panouseslaw.com/

🌟 TIMOTHY SCHULTZ'S SOCIAL & WEBSITE:

Website: https://www.timothy-schultz.com/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/officialtimothyschultz

TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@timothyschultz

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🎥 WATCH NEXT:

Lottery Winner / Sudden Wealth Interviews: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLtW0y2ulAs_JbdM9xNBsaxKyn7puGsQgQ

🎙 ABOUT THE PODCAST:

Meet your host, Timothy Schultz – a Powerball winner turned journalist! With Bullhead Entertainment, LLC, he's bringing you tales of triumph, with a focus on our mindset and the belief that anything is possible.

If you have a story that you want considered for this podcast, email us today! Email Timothy Schultz's team at Contact@Timothy-Schultz.com.

Mentioned in this episode:

Youtube: LOTTERY, DREAMS AND FORTUNE Podcast

Transcript
Speaker:

Welcome to lottery dreams and

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fortune. My name is Timothy Schultz.

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This is an interview with lottery

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lawyer Kurt Panouses.

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Now, if you want to watch this

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interview, we will put a link to the

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YouTube channel in the show notes.

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But without further ado, let's get

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to the interview.

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So I am so excited to be

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joined here by Kurt Panouses.

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He actually is the

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lottery lawyer.

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He is one of the most renowned

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lottery lawyers in the United

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States, and he

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has represented some major, major

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winners, including some billion

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dollars winners.

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People have won hundreds of

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millions.

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I'm just so pleased to welcome Kurt

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Panouses to the program today.

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How are you doing?

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I'm doing great.

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Thank you so much for having me.

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Yeah. Thank you so much for for

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joining. So for people

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that aren't familiar, how many

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lottery winners roughly have you

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represented and how did you get into

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this?

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I believe last time I looked it was

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a little over 50.

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I mean, even we're talking about

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early April of of this year.

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I've already helped six winners,

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so far this year.

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How did I get into it?

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Well, probably,

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mid to late 80s.

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I received a phone call from an

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attorney here in town that said,

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hey, Kurt, I have a client

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that called me. I did a divorce form

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years ago.

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He never paid me, but he called me

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up and said, hey, I can now pay you

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because I won the lottery.

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And he just said, I'm a family law

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attorney. I don't know what to do

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here. Can you help

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this person? So I said, sure.

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And, you know, I got into it.

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I got to look at the state of

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Florida laws at that time and

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realized that it's appropriate

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at that time to claim it.

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And across their different rules.

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Back then, you didn't

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have the option of taking the cash

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lump sum. You had to take the

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annuity. So we went through that

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whole process, and I learned

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a lot of of the process, thinking

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back when I had other clients

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that came to me because once I did

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one, people heard about it and they

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said, okay, let's call them next

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time. And I started putting some

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stuff on my website, and the next

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thing I know, I was getting calls on

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a regular basis.

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What I found out was,

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when you just worry about the

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claim and you don't look

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down the road, there was a tendency

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to miss things.

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And and so for that particular

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client, they went up with

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a group of friends.

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They party all the way up there.

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They came back, they party.

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And they went through because they

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didn't have any counseling.

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They went through that first annuity

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payment so quickly.

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You know, they ended up, going

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to a place and selling out their,

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their, their ticket at that time

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because they needed the money

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upfront.

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And again, I learned in the

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process that you just can't be

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looking at a claim.

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You have to think in the future

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of where the client's going to be.

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So it's been really helpful to have

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those early days to,

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you know, to learn from.

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And that's why I always tell people

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today what you need is an

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experienced attorney.

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You know, I had a I had a person

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that contacted me not too

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long ago that said, hey, I

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live in Georgia, but I went to

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Florida, bought a ticket on

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vacation. Now I'm back in Georgia.

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So do I need a Georgia attorney

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or a Florida attorney to help me?

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My answer was, you need an

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experienced attorney.

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And, you know, we went through the

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process of of analyzing

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the issues where the ticket was

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purchased, because those are the

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laws that that, dictate

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how you can claim it.

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So it's the state that you actually

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purchased to take it in.

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Is, is the is the state laws

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that you need to make sure that

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you're familiar with and that you

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comply with?

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Yeah, in every every state is

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different. And I know a lot of

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people are interested.

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There are viewers from all over the

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world, but people that are in

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the United States are interested in,

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how to claim it anonymously in

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different states, have different

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rules.

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I want to get into that in a second.

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But first of all, for people that

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aren't familiar, what is the

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largest?

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What are a couple of the largest

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prizes that you have helped people

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claim? And what about the smallest?

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Well, I mean, I've claimed, with

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a California ticket that was $2

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billion, the largest one ever.

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So I was involved with that,

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with that case, as far

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as the smallest. Yeah.

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I received a phone call locally here

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from a teacher, and,

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it was $50,000, a

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lump sum.

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Or she could get $4,000.

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I think it was for a month for life.

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And so we talked about all the

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issues. And normally I'm someone

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who will always say, take, take the

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lump sum, pay your taxes and be over

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with. But with this particular

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teacher, I just said, hey, listen,

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adding a couple thousand dollars on

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to your annual salary and you're

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getting ready to retire.

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Makes a lot of sense to do it that

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way. Pay a little bit more in income

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tax or the same amount that you've

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been paying so far.

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And that way, if you lived to be 90,

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you keep getting these payments.

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In myself, I like to

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tell clients at least $1 million,

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and then it makes sense to bring

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someone in to help.

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Yeah, and if you win

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a major jackpot, theoretically

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tens of millions or hundreds

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of millions.

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I mean, how do you determine

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whether. Because in the United.

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Dates you can you reference to

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earlier, but you can choose the cash

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half right away lump sum option

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before taxes or the annuity

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which is all of it over a period of

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something like 29 years.

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So how do you determine

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which, somebody

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should take? Does their age matter?

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What happens if you're in your 20s?

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Yeah, obviously someone in their

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20s. I would do differently

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than someone in their 60s.

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That's pretty much already retired.

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What we have to remember is,

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these lump sum amounts have changed.

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You know, back in 2021,

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when I helped $1 billion ticket,

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the cash lump sum at that time

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was $760 million.

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So about 76%

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today. This last week, we had two,

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two major winners, one

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in new Jersey, I think it was, and

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one in Oregon.

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And both of those were billion

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dollar tickets.

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But if you looked at them, the lump

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sum in both cases was like $480

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million, less than 50%.

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And that's because the states

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are only allowed to invest this

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money in in safe

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types of investments, which are

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five year treasuries.

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And back in 2021,

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the treasury rate for five

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year treasuries was under a fraction

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of 1%, like 10th, a 10th

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of, 2/10 of a 1%.

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Today, the treasuries are

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4 to 5% so

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that inflation affects our

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lump sum. And I wrote an article

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about that about out, you know,

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taking your lumps with the lump sum.

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But so that's that's the first

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question is, is will

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the client be comfortable in

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their life with

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taking the lump sum.

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Or should we really look at the

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annuity if it's going to be really

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substantially more money that they

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that they need for their life

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expectancy, most people will

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take a lump sum.

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From a legal perspective,

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I just tell the clients this way

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right now, the most you're going to

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pay an income tax is 37%

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at the federal level.

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And then if you live in a state

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where there's a state tax, you have

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to pay a state tax.

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Florida, we have no tax.

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But, you know, basically

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it's a 37% tax.

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Where are we going to be as a

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country in 4 or 5

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years? And I tell them back

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in the 1970s,

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you know, I was I was just

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graduating from high school and

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going to college at that time.

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Never realized it because never had

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to really consider be concerned

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about it. But the highest income tax

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bracket at that time was 90%.

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So, you know, will we go back

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to those days?

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You know, that was war stuff.

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Will we go back to those days?

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Are we going to have other issues in

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this country that's going to require

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more income tax?

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So the first thing I tell people is

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you need to pay the tax now 37%,

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or you could pay as high as 56%

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down the road if we change our tax

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laws because it's the year that you

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receive it, that you pay the tax.

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So that's number one.

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And then of course, number two,

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the concerns that you have today

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going through this process, you

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know, claiming this ticket,

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if you take the annuity, you're

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going to go through some of those

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same feelings 29

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more times.

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You know, you're going to be

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questioning, am I going to get the

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check? When's the check going to get

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here? Is it coming from the state?

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Is my state solvent to pay the

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money?

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You know, so a lot of people will

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say, hey, from from a control

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standpoint, I would like

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to just pay the 37%, be

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done with it and be on with my life.

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There's plenty of money there for me

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to live comfortably.

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And, you know, like this last,

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this last week with these $2 billion

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tickets out there, after you

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pay the taxes at the federal

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and state level and the lump sum

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amount, they're still going to end

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up with around 300 million

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after all the taxes.

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And then the question is, if I took

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the 300 million and I invested in

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4%, I would get $12

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million a year.

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So if I if I spend

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$12 million a year, I'll still have

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that 300 million in the investment

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account. Am I okay with that?

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If you're okay with that, then

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let's just take the lump sum and

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move on, as opposed to

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wondering about whether I'm going to

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get that next check.

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What's the tax rate going to be?

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What happens if I die?

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If you die with these annuity

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payments, all that gets lumped

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up together and you have to pay a

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transfer tax on it.

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So, you know, for most

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people, taking the lump sum

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and getting it over with is a

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smarter way to go.

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Hey, you know, I'm not going to be

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able to, to make good

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decisions.

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I'm concerned about the spending

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habits that I have.

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Then what will we'll consider the,

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the annuity at that time.

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But seldom do I really want to take

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it in.

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Those seldom cases when someone does

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take the annuity and they want to

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transfer it to somebody, does that

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have to be in a will or how does

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that work?

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Well, most states, just

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have you sign a form when you, when

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you claim the ticket and you

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can designate a beneficiary and

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just have to keep that, you know, in

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place.

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Some states will say, hey,

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give us a trust document, we'll

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accept it and we'll pay.

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You know the benefit. There's really

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trust, but you don't lose the money.

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So if there's 28

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more payments or 29 more payments,

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someone's got someone that you

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designate is going to get those 20

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or 29 more payments.

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The question is how much tax is

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going to be paid on.

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And you you actually are

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a CPA.

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You you are also an

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accountant. So you kind of have a

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unique niche in not

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only helping people claim the

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prizes, but you have

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a background as a CPA.

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My first seven years out of college

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was as a CPA, and

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I went into the tax end of it.

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Worked with one of the big eight

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accounting firms at that time in

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Chicago and, you know,

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was really doing tax planning and

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tax compliance work.

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So there is not an income

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tax return today that I have not

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personally filed and filled out.

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So while I don't do

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that for these clients from

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the early stages, I can keep that

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circle small because I know

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how it will affect them and

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how to discuss the issues with them.

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And then of course, after we

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claim it, that's when I'll bring

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in a compliance,

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CPA firm to help us

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with the filing of the tax returns.

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That's when I'll bring in a

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specialist that, you know, depending

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on what state that you're in.

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There's certain things I can and

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can't do as a Florida attorney,

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but helping clients with a claim I

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can do.

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You know, some people every day.

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People they don't need a bunch of

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people in white shirts,

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you know, and ties coming down to

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visit with them and tell them,

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you know, how they're going to get

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them this great return.

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They may just want, hey, you know,

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a 3 or 4% return.

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$300 million is.

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I'm good with that.

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You know, I don't want to take any

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risk. I don't want to invest in

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in, you know, like that attorney

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in New York, he ended up,

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you know, get involved with the

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financial end of it and started

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investing client monies to get them

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double digit returns and and got

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involved with the wrong people and,

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you know, clients that went 300

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million or 100 million or even 50

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million, they're going to be good.

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You know, you just got to keep them

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from getting in trouble.

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And you need to add to to

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their problems. So, you know,

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getting a decent return, 3 or

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4% spending, they're enjoying their

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life. That's what you want to do for

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them.

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You know my understanding when

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it comes to the cash

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or the annuity.

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Correct me if I'm wrong because the

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annuities are in such a conservative

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low interest rate

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that that is one of the main

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motivators. Why most people choose

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the cash option, because you can

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invest it in something a little

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higher and get a way higher return.

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Would you agree with that?

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When financial people get involved,

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you know the bankers and the

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investment people, they always

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say, well, you know, let's

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take the lump sum because I

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can outperform, I can outperform

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the market, I can outperform the

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market. You're not trying to

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outperform the market.

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You're trying to outperform five

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year treasuries.

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And so you know again today

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if someone wins you know it's

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April of 2024.

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I can go down the street to any any

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financial institution and get a CD

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for 5% basically.

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So I mean, that requires

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no effort, no investment advice.

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And maybe for someone right now,

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that's what they want to do.

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They just want to be in money

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markets and, and CDs

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until this election is over with.

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And they know which way our country

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is headed. And and so,

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you know, you need to listen to your

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client. You need to find out what

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the client wants.

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They don't sometimes they don't want

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complications.

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They don't want they don't want to

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find out that they should have all

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these different types of

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investments.

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You know, so I try to match the

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people up with a couple

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of options for them.

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Let them meet and then talk to the

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client, go, okay, you know, you've

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talked to 2 or 3.

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They're all good.

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Which one do you like better and

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why? And let's move on.

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Let's set up our accounts with them.

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And sometimes we'll say,

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hey, let's not put all our eggs in

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one basket. Let's put 50% here,

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put 50% here.

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And after a year or two, we can

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combine them, if we decide

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to we don't want to just use one

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investment group.

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Just want to go back just a

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little bit.

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When you mentioned worrying

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about whether the check is going to

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come in, if you hit a major lottery

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jackpot, do those

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do they typically come in and checks

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in the United States or are they

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wires or how is that paid in?

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And secondly to that, in addition

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to that, where does the initial

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payment go to?

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Because you certainly

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don't want to put that in a checking

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account in a bank that's not

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insured.

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What's your.

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Yeah, yeah.

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Well let's answer the second one

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first. And you know, I've said

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before, you get this big check

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from the lottery, your state

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lottery.

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This is not the time that you want

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to go down to your local credit

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union and make a deposit.

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Okay.

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Now, nothing about about credit

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unions. They serve they serve the

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population in a very good way.

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But you want to use private bankers.

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You want to use investment people

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that are used to dealing with

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big dollar amounts and big

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investments for families.

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So every state's different.

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And you would think in 2023,

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2024, in

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the world that we live in and it

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would just be a wire transfer.

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You know, most, most states

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require.

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Like two weeks, sometimes

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longer. Some states are longer.

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They have to do supposedly do all

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their due diligence and all this

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stuff, and they'll either

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send the check or they'll wire

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the money.

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There's a couple of states that I

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dealt with, you know, out west

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that you walk out of the office

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with that check.

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I mean, they they cut it right

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there.

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Even if it's even if it's millions

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of dollars.

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That's. Yes.

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You you walk out with that, check

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that that. So and

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the other thing is a lot of people

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are starting to play online.

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And so what they'll do is

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within a day or two, they'll just

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put the money in your online

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account. Now I think that that's

Speaker:

kind of scary because now

Speaker:

I got a whole bunch of money.

Speaker:

So I might say, well,

Speaker:

you know, I want a week ago, let me

Speaker:

go ahead and buy a thousand more

Speaker:

tickets, you know, because it's

Speaker:

it's it's monopoly money.

Speaker:

And so that's a concern, but every

Speaker:

state's a little bit different.

Speaker:

Most states take a couple of weeks.

Speaker:

A lot of states will issue the check

Speaker:

right away. I know Wisconsin issues

Speaker:

checks right away.

Speaker:

Washington issues checks right

Speaker:

away. You walk out with the checks.

Speaker:

Most states, it takes a couple

Speaker:

weeks.

Speaker:

Like Florida. It takes about ten

Speaker:

days. Check.

Speaker:

It's wired. They actually have you

Speaker:

show up at the office with

Speaker:

a form signed by your financial

Speaker:

institution that's notarized,

Speaker:

and they'll even call that financial

Speaker:

institution before you leave that

Speaker:

day, just to make sure the account

Speaker:

set up and, and the money

Speaker:

can be wired to they want the,

Speaker:

the bank number and the routing

Speaker:

number and all that stuff.

Speaker:

And they want it signed off by a

Speaker:

banker. So they know that they've

Speaker:

sent it to the right place.

Speaker:

You have to remember when this money

Speaker:

comes from the state lottery to,

Speaker:

you know, you're winning account,

Speaker:

the account that Kurt set up for you

Speaker:

in the trust or the LLC, whatever

Speaker:

we did or the group, you know, I set

Speaker:

up these accounts for these people.

Speaker:

I'm the representative to keep them

Speaker:

anonymous.

Speaker:

And so the check comes in

Speaker:

and it goes into the bank account

Speaker:

or the investment account

Speaker:

that I've created for them, with

Speaker:

their permission, obviously.

Speaker:

But then that institution

Speaker:

may hold it and say, wait a minute.

Speaker:

I know this came from the state.

Speaker:

I know it's lottery money, but

Speaker:

we gotta hold it seven days

Speaker:

for it to clear before you have

Speaker:

access to it.

Speaker:

So a lot of times what I'll do is

Speaker:

I'll find out what the

Speaker:

state lottery,

Speaker:

department uses for their checks,

Speaker:

and we'll open up the account

Speaker:

at that bank.

Speaker:

So that way, when the money comes

Speaker:

in that day, the bank

Speaker:

can immediately contact the state

Speaker:

lottery and get it approved

Speaker:

and get the money released.

Speaker:

And so therefore, you know, you're

Speaker:

not losing the interest on the seven

Speaker:

days, and the money's there in your

Speaker:

account. Again, that all comes with

Speaker:

experience.

Speaker:

Yeah. I imagine you've learned so

Speaker:

much over the years from doing

Speaker:

this one follow up question

Speaker:

real quick.

Speaker:

The you mentioned the private

Speaker:

bankers. When people

Speaker:

have private bankers,

Speaker:

when they have theoretically

Speaker:

hundreds of millions coming in.

Speaker:

Where are those bankers putting the

Speaker:

money? Is that like some sort of a

Speaker:

brokerage account?

Speaker:

Like what? What type of account?

Speaker:

Because.

Speaker:

You know, you're not putting it in a

Speaker:

bank where it's a, you know,

Speaker:

limited to the protection.

Speaker:

They have it in an investment

Speaker:

account, which is a separate

Speaker:

fiduciary relationship.

Speaker:

So there's no risk to the assets

Speaker:

being if the bank goes on there,

Speaker:

there's no risk.

Speaker:

Okay.

Speaker:

So what the what

Speaker:

these financial institutions will do

Speaker:

is, you know, some of the smaller

Speaker:

ones will actually go out

Speaker:

and do a nice portfolio for

Speaker:

the client. So, you know, they'll

Speaker:

tell the clients, hey, listen,

Speaker:

we're going to invest your money.

Speaker:

We're going to invest it in, in

Speaker:

companies, you know, you've

Speaker:

heard them.

Speaker:

So they're going to go out and say,

Speaker:

okay, we're going to take 15%

Speaker:

of your funds, and we're going to

Speaker:

invest it in tech stocks.

Speaker:

So you're going to buy Microsoft,

Speaker:

you're going to buy Apple, you're

Speaker:

going to buy you know, you're going

Speaker:

to own shares and all these things.

Speaker:

So when you get your statement it's

Speaker:

going to say you own 2000

Speaker:

shares of Apple.

Speaker:

You own 2000 shares of Microsoft,

Speaker:

you own 2000 shares of this.

Speaker:

And so they'll put 15% in the tech

Speaker:

industry. They'll put 15%

Speaker:

in medical companies.

Speaker:

You know, your Pfizer's your

Speaker:

Merck's, your Stryker Medical,

Speaker:

you know, all these things.

Speaker:

And so when the client gets the

Speaker:

statements, number one, it'll be

Speaker:

diversified tech, medical

Speaker:

consumer staples, you know,

Speaker:

a little bit of real estate.

Speaker:

So they'll have a giant portfolio

Speaker:

put together and you'll have 70%

Speaker:

of it basically in stocks

Speaker:

that you've heard of.

Speaker:

And all those stocks, they'll tell

Speaker:

you I won't buy a stock

Speaker:

unless it's paying me a dividend

Speaker:

to own the stock.

Speaker:

Do most clients that you have

Speaker:

that have won major

Speaker:

prizes, have they retired?

Speaker:

What do they are you able to say?

Speaker:

I know they've most

Speaker:

of them have claimed anonymously,

Speaker:

but what have they

Speaker:

gone on to do or are they still

Speaker:

working, or are you able to say.

Speaker:

In the early days it was kind of

Speaker:

funny because, you know,

Speaker:

the dollar, the dollar wins

Speaker:

were not as what they are now.

Speaker:

It's it seems like in the last ten

Speaker:

years, we've gotten these

Speaker:

super jackpots that didn't exist

Speaker:

before.

Speaker:

So in those early days,

Speaker:

if someone got,

Speaker:

you know, received $1 million

Speaker:

a year, that's a lot

Speaker:

of money. But after taxes, you

Speaker:

know, I would tell them, hey,

Speaker:

let's not quit our job right away,

Speaker:

because back then, you were worried

Speaker:

about your medical insurance, you

Speaker:

know? So let's make sure

Speaker:

that, you know, you take a leave of

Speaker:

absence from your job.

Speaker:

Let's go out, make sure you get a

Speaker:

good, medical review

Speaker:

and get all your tests done to make

Speaker:

sure that there's nothing lingering

Speaker:

there that you didn't know about.

Speaker:

That's going to cause a lot of

Speaker:

expense.

Speaker:

So let's go get all these tests

Speaker:

done. Let's go out and get an

Speaker:

individual policy in place.

Speaker:

And then you can then you can quit

Speaker:

your job and go on.

Speaker:

But I've also told people that have

Speaker:

won a lot of money that we're still

Speaker:

working.

Speaker:

They told me, oh, I love

Speaker:

my job. I'm going to stay at my job

Speaker:

and I'll go, okay, I tell you,

Speaker:

I'm going to give you six weeks,

Speaker:

because in those six weeks,

Speaker:

your boss is going to tell you or

Speaker:

whoever your supervisor is going to

Speaker:

tell you to do some, and you're

Speaker:

going to look at your statement that

Speaker:

day and you're looking at your

Speaker:

statement. You can tell that

Speaker:

supervisor, now I'm out of here.

Speaker:

So, yeah, when when they see when

Speaker:

they take a look at their money,

Speaker:

when it's there after 4 or 5 weeks,

Speaker:

you no one stays at their job.

Speaker:

You know, I, I, I

Speaker:

hear about these stories,

Speaker:

you know, I watch it on TV

Speaker:

that, you know, this group one.

Speaker:

And they all stayed at their job.

Speaker:

You know, I

Speaker:

have never seen that.

Speaker:

I've never seen that.

Speaker:

This is the biggest financial

Speaker:

decision you're going to make in

Speaker:

your lifetime.

Speaker:

We need to have a plan, and there's

Speaker:

no do overs.

Speaker:

So this is the time to put a plan

Speaker:

together, understand the plan

Speaker:

and follow the plan.

Speaker:

And it's more than just the client.

Speaker:

You mentioned Winston Wolf from

Speaker:

Pulp Fiction, and I see behind you

Speaker:

you have a mega million. INS.

Speaker:

Check for a wolverine.

Speaker:

It's a little bit different, but the

Speaker:

Wolverine AFL club,

Speaker:

it was, I believe, $1 billion prize

Speaker:

for mega millions that you helped

Speaker:

them receive on behalf

Speaker:

of a group, I believe.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

So that.

Speaker:

Go ahead.

Speaker:

I was gonna say. So that was

Speaker:

interesting because, you know, that

Speaker:

was a call that I received

Speaker:

probably within, 48

Speaker:

hours of the drawing.

Speaker:

So I got a call right away and,

Speaker:

and they said, hey, we

Speaker:

did some investigation.

Speaker:

We have the winning ticket, we want

Speaker:

to talk to you.

Speaker:

And so we started the

Speaker:

process of talking.

Speaker:

And, you know, I said, hey, let me

Speaker:

do a deeper dive in the Michigan.

Speaker:

You know, I went to law school,

Speaker:

Michigan. So I kind of knew a little

Speaker:

bit, but I never really looked at

Speaker:

the Michigan Lottery laws.

Speaker:

And so so I'm going online

Speaker:

and checking some of the stories.

Speaker:

And here's the person from the

Speaker:

Michigan Lottery out there saying,

Speaker:

well, in Michigan you

Speaker:

have to be a natural person to

Speaker:

claim lottery.

Speaker:

So you can't claim it in a trust.

Speaker:

You can't claim it, and I'll say, so

Speaker:

we will know who the winner is, and

Speaker:

we'll be able to tell he's on the

Speaker:

news telling everyone about this.

Speaker:

So I'm looking at these at

Speaker:

these rules and the laws and,

Speaker:

and I said, well, you know,

Speaker:

you have to be a natural person.

Speaker:

I understand that, but

Speaker:

am I not a natural person?

Speaker:

I said, of course I am.

Speaker:

So I went back to the group and I

Speaker:

said, hey, listen, I think there's a

Speaker:

way to do this after looking at the

Speaker:

laws. And so we all

Speaker:

agree that that's how we're going to

Speaker:

do it.

Speaker:

I flew up to Michigan.

Speaker:

You know, we we spent a lot of time,

Speaker:

a couple weeks putting this whole

Speaker:

thing together.

Speaker:

And we looked at choices.

Speaker:

And, you know, one of the other

Speaker:

things that I found out is

Speaker:

in doing this work, every

Speaker:

once in a while, you just can't

Speaker:

go in there as the lottery

Speaker:

attorney to help people, you need

Speaker:

to bring your sidekick in.

Speaker:

And that sidekick has

Speaker:

to be someone that comes in as a

Speaker:

litigator, ready to

Speaker:

file what they need to file.

Speaker:

And so you have to put that into

Speaker:

place.

Speaker:

And so I actually brought a

Speaker:

litigation attorney with me

Speaker:

because I started dealing with

Speaker:

the attorney general's office who

Speaker:

represents the lottery,

Speaker:

that you with every state gambling

Speaker:

and lottery is, is is

Speaker:

run by the state

Speaker:

attorney. So the, you know, the

Speaker:

attorney general's office.

Speaker:

So I started dealing with them and

Speaker:

they were kind of pushing back a

Speaker:

little bit like, hey,

Speaker:

we know where you're going, but we

Speaker:

don't think. And I'm like, oh, I

Speaker:

don't care if you think, you

Speaker:

know, I'm just looking at it as I'm

Speaker:

looking at your rules and your rules

Speaker:

allow for this.

Speaker:

And so I created

Speaker:

a group, and I came

Speaker:

in with group rules like a club,

Speaker:

and, and we gave it a name,

Speaker:

and we put names

Speaker:

down, and everyone signed it,

Speaker:

and I walked into that office,

Speaker:

and, you know.

Speaker:

Well, actually, initially

Speaker:

what happened is I went up to

Speaker:

Michigan. I said, I we're ready to

Speaker:

claim I'd like to come in today

Speaker:

so we can make the claim.

Speaker:

And I was told, well, you can't come

Speaker:

in today.

Speaker:

Well, we'll call back tomorrow.

Speaker:

So the next day I woke up

Speaker:

and called them. I was in Michigan,

Speaker:

so I was just, you know, I'm not an

Speaker:

hour and a half away.

Speaker:

And so I just said, hey,

Speaker:

you know, I called yesterday, I want

Speaker:

to come in today to claim.

Speaker:

And they said, well, you can't come

Speaker:

into claim call tomorrow.

Speaker:

And I said, well, why can't I come

Speaker:

in to claim? And they go, because

Speaker:

we're we're just not ready for you.

Speaker:

And I go, well, you know, it's been

Speaker:

three weeks. I want to claim this

Speaker:

ticket.

Speaker:

Well, no.

Speaker:

And I think they knew where I was

Speaker:

going and they were trying to

Speaker:

postpone it, and,

Speaker:

so they can deal with it.

Speaker:

So then I said, listen,

Speaker:

I'm going to be there tomorrow at

:

00, and I want to come

:

in there and claim the ticket.

:

And I'm telling you right now,

:

either I'm going to claim the ticket

:

or I'm going to send the winner's

:

home, and I'm going to call a press

:

conference outside of your lottery

:

office and call the people I know

:

from NBC and ABC

:

and have them there.

:

And I'm going to tell the people

:

that the state of Michigan does not

:

want to pay the lottery winners.

:

And, you know, of course, they

:

said, no problem, we'll see you

:

tomorrow at 10:00, blah, blah, blah.

:

So, you know, I went there and,

:

I brought I brought an attorney that

:

was ready to file an administrative,

:

you know, motion

:

for, for this relief.

:

And, so we created

:

a club.

:

We went there as the as

:

the representative of the club.

:

I signed all the paperwork, I did

:

everything, and of course, they

:

said, well, okay, but we need to

:

have a picture.

:

And I said, well, I'll take the

:

picture. So I took a picture with

:

the with the lottery

:

advisor, you know, the head of the

:

lottery at that time, he's since

:

retired and moved on as a judge.

:

And there's the two of us holding

:

the check together.

:

And when the when the picture came

:

out, they removed them from the

:

picture. So it's just me holding the

:

check like this.

:

And it was kind of really weird.

:

Oh my gosh.

:

You know what I'm line is,

:

you know, the way we did it.

:

We comply with their laws.

:

They didn't. Like it.

:

You know, it came

:

to a push or shove.

:

But the bottom line is, the clients

:

were able to get these funds,

:

and they're living their life, and

:

they're so happy, and they

:

they're enjoying life, and they're

:

doing things for the community.

:

In a silent way.

:

To help out the community.

:

They're in southeast Michigan and,

:

and other places.

:

And so it all worked out well,

:

and I did I did the

:

holding on the check and

:

have done a couple of interviews on

:

it, and, no one knows who the

:

winners are, and that's a good

:

thing. So.

:

Yeah, that that seems that seems

:

very wise.

:

And on this show

:

I've interviewed quite a few lottery

:

winners and some

:

of them, well couple anyway.

:

You know, they've done interviews

:

anonymously.

:

So and I've also

:

I offered people, you know, we can

:

blur your face. We can disguise your

:

voice completely respect that.

:

Or if they don't want to do an

:

interview, that's fine too.

:

But, I respect

:

that. But how do you stay anonymous?

:

If you you mentioned

:

it in California and Florida, but

:

some states in the United States,

:

they say that you cannot.

:

So are there any states where that's

:

just not an option, or do you think

:

is there always a way or

:

so.

:

Some states make it very difficult,

:

very hard. But as I always as

:

I've said, you need to also find

:

out from your clients,

:

you know, a little bit about them.

:

So, like, if I run into

:

anyone that happened

:

to be in law enforcement or

:

something like that.

:

Well, you know,

:

I think you can have a really good

:

reason for them to be,

:

they will claim it anonymously

:

because I had someone who

:

was a prison guard, and, and

:

he was and the state said we get

:

to disclose.

:

And I said, well, you disclose

:

he's this guy's in trouble, you

:

know, with what he does for a

:

living. He's in trouble, his

:

family's in trouble.

:

And so, you know, we went to the

:

attorney general's office.

:

We talked about it, and they allowed

:

it. They, you know, they allowed for

:

it to happen. I another state that

:

said, hey, you know,

:

you win these, these

:

dollars for life.

:

But we were saying it's only 7

:

million. Our state law says

:

it has to be over 10 million before

:

we allow the person to be anonymous.

:

So since our lump sum amounts

:

only 7 million, we get to identify

:

who the winner is.

:

So I walked in there with,

:

three, three, reports

:

from, you know,

:

mathematicians that basically

:

said that my client was in his

:

mid 20s, that one

:

$365,000

:

a year for life, that the value of

:

that was like 18 million.

:

And so, you know, I went in there

:

and said, it's not a $7 million

:

win based on his life expectancy.

:

It's, you know, 18.

:

And they go, okay, well, you know,

:

so you have to you have to

:

you have to research.

:

You have to look, I tell the

:

clients, how much is your privacy

:

worth? I mean, that's the question,

:

you know, do you, do you want to

:

give me more time?

:

Do you want to give me a little bit

:

extra funds so that we can do it

:

this way? Or do you just want to go

:

in and client that's that's your

:

option. I you know, I can't

:

I can't change it for you.

:

But tell me what you want.

:

That's very, very interesting.

:

And for people that

:

are watching this, perhaps

:

a future lottery winner,

:

what should you do if you win?

:

A major lottery jackpot or even

:

hundreds of thousands or 100,000

:

or millions.

:

What should you do?

:

What are the steps?

:

So, you know, every state

:

lottery, office

:

says selling the ticket.

:

They'll even say, sign the ticket

:

before you go home.

:

You know, before the lottery

:

drawing. Sign the tickets on the

:

back of the ticket.

:

Well, they do that because,

:

you know, if you sign the back of

:

the ticket in a lot of states,

:

that's how you have to claim,

:

because the tickets a bearer

:

document and whoever fills

:

out the claim form and estimates the

:

ticket and, and they'll say,

:

well, sorry.

:

Yeah, I know you wanted to go talk

:

to companies this, but, you know,

:

that's not going to help you now

:

because you signed the ticket.

:

So I always tell people, do

:

not sign the ticket.

:

Okay.

:

Am I rationale for that is,

:

again, I want to know

:

where this client

:

believes they're going to be

:

a year from now.

:

Okay. As I said, I'm always this

:

forward looking plan.

:

So not just the claim.

:

Where are you going to be a year

:

from now? Who would you have helped

:

out? You know, said brothers and

:

sisters, as a children, you know

:

who's part of this.

:

So that way we can do the tax

:

planning, the transfer

:

without it being a gift and using

:

your exemptions for

:

better purposes, like for GST

:

purposes, generation, skipping tax

:

purposes rather than for

:

just transferring over to a family

:

member. So I want

:

the back of the ticket to be a

:

canvas.

:

And I'm the painter, I am

:

Michelangelo, and I want

:

to go to that canvas, and I want to

:

have a plain canvas that I could

:

paint this picture of where the

:

client wants to be.

:

So if someone.

:

Signed the ticket.

:

It's real hard to paint over that.

:

Okay, so. So I like to take it to

:

be blank.

:

I tell the client, you know, make

:

a copy of the ticket for the front

:

in the back. So that's all I would

:

need to do my work and then

:

take a selfie with the ticket.

:

Hold it right next to you, take a

:

selfie and say, okay, here's my

:

face. On this day, I have this

:

ticket, and here are the numbers.

:

I can read them and then put the

:

ticket in the safest place.

:

You know, because we

:

will not need the ticket until the

:

day of the court.

:

And on those days, you

:

know, in most cases, I

:

don't travel up with the client

:

because they, they, you know, they

:

kind of like the idea of, of, hey,

:

I know this guy.

:

I know he's my attorney, but I

:

feel more comfortable driving up

:

separately or flying, whatever

:

we do, and we'll

:

meet at a location someplace, some

:

public location where people

:

are expecting us to meet.

:

And at that point in time,

:

you know, I'll tell the client,

:

okay.

:

Let's get into my vehicle.

:

My vehicle's a rental vehicle.

:

If anyone takes the license plate,

:

they're not going to know it.

:

So leave your vehicle here.

:

Get in here. You got the ticket?

:

You got your driver's license.

:

We'll go to the office.

:

And, you know, that's when we'll

:

we'll do the claim.

:

So that way, they're walking in with

:

me. I always tell them,

:

I know COVID's over.

:

Good time to still wear a hat.

:

Good times. Still wear sunglasses.

:

And no reason why you can't wear a

:

mask. Because, you know,

:

you may still be worried about

:

Covid. So, you know, let's mask

:

up. Let's go in so no one can take

:

your picture. I've had people even

:

wear some wigs because once they get

:

in there, they just have to show

:

their I.D. and they can take this

:

stuff off for one minute, put it

:

back on.

:

I mean, today's day and age,

:

it's so easy to walk through an

:

office and go wash and take a

:

picture of someone. So, you know

:

you're young enough to be looking at

:

someone. So?

:

So I always tell them, you know, do

:

it this way.

:

We'll go in.

:

We'll do the claim.

:

We have a plan in place.

:

We'll follow the plan.

:

We'll do the claim.

:

And then once we've done that claim.

:

And that's why I said, don't sign

:

the back of a ticket. Let's, let's.

:

And many times I see the ticket for

:

the first time the day of

:

the flight. And that's when I put

:

whatever we need to put on the back

:

of the ticket. At that moment when

:

we're inside the lottery office,

:

because I don't want to be

:

responsible for this ticket out of

:

time. And so, you know, after

:

the claims are with them, we sit

:

down, say, okay, claims over

:

with, you don't have to worry about

:

it. Everything's off your shoulders.

:

You can now breathe.

:

You're anonymous.

:

Now, let's start talking about the

:

first option of many

:

times. You got 60 days

:

to do the lump sum or annuity.

:

Let's make sure that we're clear on

:

that. Now that the ticket has been

:

transferred in, you've had a little

:

bit more time to think about it.

:

Let's go over the reasons why we

:

want one or the other.

:

Let's do that.

:

Let's make sure we have the bank

:

account set up so the money can be

:

transferred in properly, because

:

that might take a day or two.

:

Let's get that done.

:

And then let's start thinking about,

:

you know, the early uses of the

:

money, if anything.

:

You know what?

:

What are we going to use the money

:

for?

:

You know, immediately or,

:

or where should we be

:

with our investments?

:

Let's slowly get into the stock

:

market. You don't want to say, hey,

:

I got 100 million.

:

I'm getting in today.

:

100 million is going in on on April

:

11th. Now, you want to

:

slowly get in and you want to put

:

a couple of thousand dollars in each

:

week, get into the market in a slow,

:

slow, methodical way.

:

Follow the plan.

:

You know, all this stuff.

:

So the only thing I ask people right

:

now is, hey, after you call

:

me and say, I need your help,

:

I'll just ask for a copy of the

:

front of the ticket so I can verify

:

that they actually have a winning

:

ticket, because that's happened to

:

me a couple times.

:

The first time it was a couple

:

that thought, you know, they thought

:

they had a winning ticket.

:

And, you know, I, I ruined the

:

vacation because,

:

you know, even on the golf course, I

:

was sending emails and text back and

:

forth between my office and that,

:

on a vacation.

:

And I get back to the office

:

and I contacted the Florida Lottery

:

and I said, hey, I'm representing

:

the clients at one mega I take.

:

It's already been claimed.

:

And so I go, no, no, no.

:

And so I finally asked him,

:

I said, hey, can you bring the

:

ticket in? They came in.

:

And what they had was

:

it was the results of the,

:

of the, of the day before

:

they went to the 7-Eleven and

:

someone said, hey, here's the

:

winning numbers. And they gave him,

:

I gave him the ticket and they

:

thought that was their ticket.

:

So on their numbers matched.

:

And so they actually thought they

:

had a winning ticket. They didn't

:

know I felt so bad because,

:

you know, they thought they had won.

:

It was a young family.

:

And, you know, I spent a bunch of

:

time, I just said, hey, listen, you

:

know, I can't charge you.

:

You know, I feel so bad

:

for you. So that's happened.

:

Those are that's one of the worst

:

stories ever. But, that's why

:

I asked for a copy of the ticket

:

today before I spend a lot of time.

:

That would be heartbreaking.

:

That would be heartbreaking.

:

No.

:

You know, you know, worse

:

than that, believe it or not, is I

:

had a couple of guys in

:

in the state of Arizona that

:

religiously they played the

:

lottery every Friday night.

:

You know, it was their it was their

:

plan.

:

They would go bowling.

:

They were bowling partners.

:

They they went bowling.

:

They had a couple beers that pizza.

:

And they would get their lottery

:

tickets, which were for the next

:

week, which at that time for

:

Powerball was it was Saturday

:

night and Wednesday night, Saturday

:

and Wednesday.

:

So they had the same numbers.

:

They always bought it.

:

Here's my ticket for Saturday and

:

here's my ticket for for Wednesday.

:

So they bought these same numbers.

:

And of course what fate what

:

happened is those same numbers

:

that they always played for all

:

these years.

:

Powerball came out with a

:

Monday drawing for the first time a

:

little over a year ago, and of

:

course, they didn't know about it.

:

It wasn't really advertised, so they

:

didn't buy a ticket for Monday.

:

They'd spotted for Saturday and then

:

and then Wednesday.

:

And of course, their numbers came

:

in, all six of them with

:

the Powerball.

:

It would have been a couple hundred

:

million.

:

And, you know, I had to tell them

:

I go. That's the saddest thing I've

:

ever heard, but there's nothing we

:

can do about it. So you can even

:

buy a ticket for Monday night.

:

So you mentioned a couple these

:

heartbreaking stories.

:

How two people that actually do win

:

big, how do they react

:

when you meet them?

:

Like if you meet them?

:

I don't know if you meet them at a

:

hotel or how do people react

:

when they first meet

:

you and you fly to their location to

:

read go.

:

All a little bit different.

:

I had a client that,

:

I flew up, talk

:

to them.

:

It was only like a, I think a 3 or

:

$4 million when only,

:

everyone would take that.

:

But, you know, one of their flew

:

up there the day before,

:

got up in the morning, was

:

supposed to meet him at 10:00.

:

They showed up right at 10:00.

:

Met him in the lobby.

:

First time I physically met them.

:

We talked on the phone, saw a couple

:

zoom meetings. But first of all, I

:

physically met him, and I said, hey,

:

this particular state,

:

you don't have to go with me.

:

I can do it by myself.

:

I just need your information.

:

So they gave me their IDs.

:

They gave me this ticket, which was

:

unsigned on the back.

:

I mean, 3 or $4 million ticket,

:

unsigned. Bare document gave it

:

to me, and I just said,

:

okay, stay right here.

:

And I said, I'll tell you what.

:

I want you to follow the whole thing

:

without being there.

:

So I gave him the other phone that

:

I have, and, and we,

:

we FaceTimed.

:

So they were holding on to this

:

phone. I walked out, walked

:

couple blocks to lottery office,

:

walked in, signed in, went up

:

to the office, did the claim

:

for them while they were watching me

:

on the phone.

:

Technically I could have just given

:

them a phone and and walked off

:

and and gone and claimed that

:

even though attorneys by

:

nature are supposed to be trusted

:

professionals.

:

And so I put the clients first.

:

Unfortunately, it's been a lot of

:

bad people that have done things

:

that should have done things.

:

Hmhm do they

:

adjust to their new reality?

:

Okay. I mean, as far as you know.

:

It's tough, you know, because they

:

they, as

:

one of them said to me, Curt,

:

I'm learning how to be

:

rich. I'm just learning.

:

You know, I was comfortable before

:

I was retired.

:

I had everything I needed in

:

retirement.

:

And then all of a sudden, I got this

:

big boost.

:

And, you know, I

:

never joined an elite

:

country club, even though I like,

:

I like playing golf.

:

So this particular person

:

got two memberships, you know, has

:

a membership in the every day blue

:

collar, country club.

:

And then he's got one at this elite

:

place.

:

And when his friends come in town,

:

he goes and places the blue collar

:

one. You know, if if it's just

:

him or a special guest, he'll

:

go to the elite one and go play.

:

Yeah. He doesn't care that he pays

:

$30,000 a month in fees

:

because it doesn't mean anything to

:

him.

:

Yeah. If we'll go someplace to

:

a resort where you have to

:

have a caddy. I remember the first

:

time we went to a place where it was

:

caddies only, and so

:

we got done with the round, you

:

know, I reached into my pocket, got

:

a couple hundred dollar bills out

:

and gave the county hills.

:

Hey, what are you doing?

:

And I go, well, tip in the county.

:

Well, how much did you do that?

:

And I go, don't worry about it.

:

Took care of it for both of us.

:

Well, I want to know how much you

:

tip them, because, you know, I want

:

to know. So I told him so.

:

Then he reaches into his pocket and

:

gives the caddy another couple

:

hundred dollars. And I'm like, God,

:

you didn't have to do that.

:

And he goes, well, I wanted to.

:

And so he goes, you know, the money

:

doesn't mean anything to me.

:

I want to help out. So so, you

:

know, the county was overjoyed

:

because he had no idea what was

:

going on.

:

You know, you go out to dinner and,

:

you know, he goes, hey, you know

:

wine better than I do.

:

You order a bottle of wine.

:

So I go, okay, so I order a

:

$300 bottle of wine.

:

So then the question was, well,

:

what do I tip for a $300 bottle?

:

One, I never I never bought a bottle

:

of wine over $50 and,

:

you know, $50.

:

I'll pay this much in tip, but

:

what's the appropriate?

:

I don't want to be I don't want to

:

be too much.

:

Then again, I don't want to be too

:

little. So, you know, they learn,

:

you know, and like with a lot of

:

clients that when these big dollar

:

amounts, you know, the first thing

:

that the first thing I

:

suggest to them is now they're able

:

to do what's called concierge

:

medicine. So instead

:

of waiting at a doctor's office, you

:

pay a fee every year.

:

It's it's like maybe

:

$5,000 a year.

:

I think it's been as high as 7000.

:

Some as low as 3000.

:

How would you pay this fee?

:

And this doctor's available for you

:

24 seven.

:

And so if you're not feeling good,

:

you can go into their office or

:

you can call them on the phone, zoom

:

and tell them what's going on.

:

Yeah. And what they'll do is they'll

:

put a box together for you.

:

And this box has all these different

:

medications and things, and they'll

:

tell you, hey, based on how you're

:

feeling and what you tell me, you

:

may have Covid.

:

So in the box there

:

is a blue box.

:

And in the blue box there's these

:

pills. And so I want you to take

:

two of these and then call me

:

tomorrow. You know so so they

:

give them certain medications

:

that that's prepackaged,

:

that they tell them what to do and

:

they can call up whenever they want.

:

So the concierge medicine is really

:

big. You know, they'll still get

:

their insurance policy, but they

:

have a concierge doctor that will

:

talk to them 24 seven.

:

You have to wait in line.

:

You don't have to wait a week to get

:

in to see them. It's immediate.

:

So that's number one.

:

Number two. Big thing is, is

:

obviously getting the security for

:

their health in place.

:

So that way, whether they're at that

:

house or we buy a new house for

:

buying a new house, I'll set it up

:

in a land trust so no one will know

:

who owns the house, and we'll do it

:

that way. So, yeah, give them some

:

privacy.

:

So, you know, again,

:

they'll they still may own their own

:

house. Don't just say I'm going on a

:

trip. I'm going on vacation, and

:

they'll go to their other house, you

:

know, for the summer, for the

:

winter, whatever it is.

:

You know, the next thing I'll talk

:

to them about is. Hey, you have

:

enough money here that I know

:

you're flying first class, and

:

that's great.

:

Well, how about flying Netjets?

:

How about flying?

:

You know, you

:

know, one of these private,

:

companies where you just go

:

to your local airport, you're on the

:

plane and you're going, I mean, you

:

know, you don't have to wait.

:

You know, you can do your own thing.

:

And so a lot of them will do that,

:

because what I do is after

:

the first year or two, second year,

:

I get the investment first and say,

:

okay, what exactly

:

was our income?

:

What what was the dividends and

:

interest? What did we earn.

:

And give me that number.

:

So we get that number and then I'll

:

say, what do we spend.

:

You know, take all their, all their,

:

you know, all their expenses on

:

their credit card.

:

What was expense?

:

Well, this number.

:

So you made 12.

:

You spent five.

:

That means you got $7 million,

:

that you're not even touching the

:

principal anymore. That we can use

:

for whatever you want to use it.

:

Whether it's making gifts to people,

:

whether it's going to charity,

:

whether it's, whatever you want to

:

do, you know,

:

spend, you know, if you don't spend

:

your kids. Well, so let's, let's do

:

some let's take a trip.

:

Let's enjoy life while you can.

:

You know, with these people that,

:

that when lots of money,

:

they start saying, well, I'm going

:

to do this charitable gift plan.

:

And so they want to talk about a

:

foundation and I'll go,

:

well, you know, foundations are

:

nice, I do them, I set them up for

:

people. But a foundation requires

:

work, you know, requires employees.

:

It requires people doing this.

:

Are you going to do this?

:

No. I'm retired.

:

I'm not doing it well.

:

Are your kids going to do it?

:

I don't think they're qualified.

:

Okay, well, if they're not going to

:

do it, then why are we doing a

:

foundation?

:

Why not set up a a donor

:

advised fund at a community

:

where you have all your stocks

:

that are, you know, increased in

:

value instead of selling them

:

and having capital gains, just

:

transfer a stock holding to your

:

donor advised fund so you get the

:

dollar for dollar, deduction.

:

And then you tell the donor, advised

:

one to pay this to

:

make a distribution to this charity,

:

but do it anonymously so someone

:

doesn't even know where it came

:

from. So all you have to do

:

is make a phone call, call me, and

:

I'll do it for you.

:

You know. So.

:

You know, again, it's it's

:

helping these people accomplish

:

their goals and and

:

doing so in a private,

:

anonymous manner, because I'm

:

convinced that the

:

way to be successful

:

in life, after winning the lottery

:

and to not having any issues

:

is to stay anonymous.

:

If if it gets out that you won,

:

there's going to be so many

:

pressures on you from family,

:

from friends, from people

:

that just know of you, that

:

want to talk to you, that want to

:

make a request. I get requests all

:

the time from my clients for for

:

donations, you know?

:

I'm a veteran.

:

I lost my job.

:

I got a family.

:

I need some help.

:

I need I need someone to put money

:

into my my business.

:

You know, can you get one of your

:

clients to to give me $10

:

million or.

:

I'm sorry, $10,000 so I can,

:

you know, keep my business afloat?

:

You know, it's hard to help people.

:

And I've gotten messages from

:

clients, from from

:

people that are trying to meet

:

with my clients that say,

:

if I don't get this money, I'm going

:

to kill myself.

:

You know, I mean, how do you say no

:

to those people? It's hard, but you

:

have to. And so the the best

:

way to do it is to not even let them

:

know that you exist.

:

And people do come

:

out of the woodwork for

:

some lottery winners.

:

But if you claim it anonymously,

:

do they, to your knowledge, do they

:

still some people at least deal

:

with, that with

:

friends or family?

:

If the word gets around

:

or how do they does it change

:

relationships or do you?

:

You know, obviously obviously you

:

have to be careful who you tell and

:

how you tell. You know, there's some

:

cases out there where, you know,

:

there were some divorces and,

:

and so, you know, the,

:

the, you know, to protect

:

the child, the family

:

said that they, that they needed

:

to tell the mother of the child who

:

was divorcing their son

:

that, that there was money,

:

that they were going to set up.

:

And so they, the the mother signed

:

a non-disclosure agreement.

:

And then, of course, she tell

:

someone in her family, you tell

:

someone else, you

:

know, turns into litigation.

:

You know, all you can do is if you

:

tell someone trying to get

:

a non-disclosure agreement put in

:

place, at least you have something

:

to hang your hat on at that time,

:

there's always a chance that it gets

:

up. And, so that's

:

why you have to have these other,

:

other, like, side

:

road plants just in case, have that

:

burner phone have have things

:

available so that if you have to

:

leave, you know, you can leave

:

quickly.

:

You know, whatever, whatever's

:

necessary. Sometimes, you know,

:

that's like plans, but still it

:

happens and you need to leave the

:

area.

:

That that makes sense and do

:

quite a few lottery winners move,

:

you know, after they win.

:

Well, I try to tell them not to,

:

because that would bring because,

:

you know, if it says,

:

you know, someone in

:

in, you know, this, this city,

:

won the lottery and this little town

:

won the lottery, and everyone's

:

looking around for, you know, who

:

was that? Who got the new car, who

:

got this? You know, if all of a

:

sudden you pack up and leave, you

:

know, that's a different story.

:

But if you keep your house

:

and you just go out, you said, hey,

:

listen, I've retired.

:

I'm gonna spend half the year here,

:

and half the people understand that.

:

You know, there was a old

:

movie a long time ago.

:

And it was humorous.

:

It was called Wacky Ned Devine,

:

and it was, about winning

:

the, the Irish Sweepstakes.

:

And so these two guys,

:

we're trying to find out who

:

who was the person that won

:

the little town.

:

And so they threw a party,

:

and then they were analyzing who

:

didn't show up to the party,

:

or what changed them in the little

:

town and found out it was a guy

:

who never showed up to anything

:

after they started this whole

:

process.

:

And they went to his house and

:

he was in front of the TV in his

:

chair holding the ticket.

:

And the TV was all or, you know,

:

was off base, or they were

:

scratching.

:

And he realized that they realized

:

he had a heart attack watching,

:

watching the numbers.

:

And so then they took the the ticket

:

and they tried to pretend they

:

were him to claim the money.

:

So, it's a funny, funny show

:

to watch. But again,

:

that's what people do.

:

People in small towns

:

want to know who was it?

:

That one in our small little town,

:

you know, you they have these press

:

releases now with these big dollar

:

amounts. You see them.

:

And right next thing, the whole

:

lottery office is there at this

:

little grocery store, this little

:

7-Eleven or gas station,

:

and they're doing this big party,

:

and they give $100,000 check to the

:

owner of the station or the grocery

:

store. You gotta match that stuff

:

up, because we've had some

:

litigation in that area on

:

California where, you know,

:

the times were not correct,

:

near both people going to the store,

:

both people claiming to own it, and

:

the ticket gets owned by the one

:

person. So, you know,

:

it's it's crazy.

:

You know, money makes people funny.

:

I can't think of a better person to

:

win sometimes than some of my

:

clients that have won in listening

:

to. Their stories, and

:

their relationships, people

:

who were.

:

Childhood sweethearts,

:

that, you know, were not married

:

before.

:

And now the money allows them to get

:

married because, you know, they were

:

they were separate.

:

They were childhood sweethearts, but

:

one got married somewhere else and

:

got divorced and now is together.

:

But they're getting alimony so they

:

can't get married.

:

But now they're able to go get

:

married because they all morning.

:

Money doesn't mean anything to them

:

because they got this lottery money.

:

So some of these stories that you

:

you hear about and you

:

become part of their family, you're

:

just so happy for it.

:

And, and so, yeah,

:

I got some of that. I got some of

:

the best clients, if not the best

:

clients in the whole world when I

:

look at it.

:

And, so I'm happy to do what I do

:

for a living.

:

That's wonderful.

:

And what a unique niche.

:

You have you

:

mentioned that some of the larger

:

clients, that some

:

of them feels like family,

:

that you're really close to them.

:

Do you find that people

:

have a difficult time trusting

:

attorneys? Because on this

:

podcast, we get comments

:

from some people that

:

are skeptical because

:

they've never, you know, had that

:

kind of money and they don't know

:

what to do with it. And they see the

:

horror stories and media.

:

So how do you find

:

what do you tell someone that's

:

skeptical of having someone help

:

them behind the scenes, or to find

:

the right person?

:

You know, it used to be

:

if you were a CPA, you were held to

:

this highest standard in the world.

:

And then we went through a couple of

:

years there in the 80s

:

where, you know, CPAs

:

were doctoring books and,

:

you know, so CPAs fell

:

and then, you know, lawyers maybe

:

got a step up. But, you know,

:

I tell people you should do your due

:

diligence. First of all, yeah, you

:

shouldn't just be hiring me just

:

because, you know, you

:

know, I'm out there, because there's

:

a lot of attorneys out there.

:

Again, the question is, who's got

:

the experience?

:

Yeah. I tell people, I would love

:

for you to talk to some of my

:

clients. The problem is no

:

one knows who my clients are, and

:

that's by design.

:

So if you go to my website

:

and you look at it,

:

it'll say, if you want to look at

:

past winners, you know, click here.

:

And you go to that and it says,

:

you know, they're not disclosed.

:

Sorry. But you know, that's all

:

by by intentional,

:

process on my part.

:

You know, there's a couple of bad

:

eggs all the time.

:

There was a guy in New York that

:

did, I believe,

:

in his career.

:

He probably did some really good

:

things for clients.

:

And then the problem was, he

:

stepped out of being a lawyer, and

:

he said, hey, I'm watching

:

these financial people.

:

And when they come in, they're

:

making 20, $30,000

:

a month, you know, handling the

:

investments. I can do that.

:

I can do better for the clients.

:

So he got involved in in an

:

area that was outside of his

:

training.

:

And when he did that, he got

:

involved with organized crime.

:

And, you know, the premise was

:

I could help this little lady

:

get 20% return on her

:

million on $1 billion.

:

Well, a little lady does

:

not need a 20% return on $1

:

billion. You know, she couldn't even

:

spend $1 billion if she wanted to,

:

you know? So stay in your lane,

:

you know, do what you do best.

:

You know, I just happen to have the

:

background as a CPA and

:

an attorney and a trust in the

:

state's attorney and board

:

certification, where

:

I have lots of things to lose.

:

So all those disciplines come

:

together to keep that circle so

:

small during the initial stages that

:

I don't need anyone else to help me.

:

If there's someone there that brings

:

me in, sure, I'll work with them.

:

But I want to be in control of

:

everything because I know what to do

:

with the individual states.

:

Like, I got a call in Pennsylvania

:

one time for $500 million,

:

win.

:

And it was from a law firm,

:

and they said, hey, we want to reach

:

out to you. And I go, okay, so

:

we are we have a zoom meeting with

:

the client and the client's CPA.

:

And, you know, I said, well,

:

this is what I would suggest in

:

Pennsylvania based on their law.

:

And the CPA stood up and goes,

:

that's not going to work, because,

:

you know, you can't claim in a trust

:

disclosing the trust.

:

As I said, yeah, I read that and

:

that's fine. But it's not just going

:

to be your typical trust.

:

It's going to be a trust with some

:

lawyers in it with LLCs.

:

And I go as members and I go,

:

I go, we're going to we're going to

:

mix it up. They're not going to

:

know. We walked, we go into

:

the office over there.

:

Eventually the attorney and myself

:

walk in. The client didn't even go

:

and he stayed out in the car.

:

We went in, took care of business,

:

came out and, and,

:

you know, gave the client the check.

:

And he was happy as could be.

:

He didn't even have to walk inside.

:

We did all the work for him.

:

And, you know, that CPA looked

:

at me and said, never thought you

:

could do that. And I go, well, you

:

know, that's why everyone brings me

:

in. So whether I'm called

:

by the client to do this stuff or

:

whether it's another law firm that

:

brings me in, I'm okay.

:

As long as we can take care of that

:

client. That's all I'm interested

:

in. I don't care if there's someone

:

else there with me.

:

If that's what. That's what the

:

client wants. If the client wants

:

their friend as the attorney to walk

:

in with me or they're professional,

:

I'm good with that.

:

It's not about an ego.

:

It's about helping.

:

And doing the right thing for them.

:

And, you know, I'm just

:

I'm just happy to have the client

:

and have the experience.

:

And, so, you know, it's

:

it's, everyone's

:

a little bit different.

:

Their methodology is different, as I

:

said, that attorney.

:

You know, I know he was doing good

:

work, but he got involved with the

:

wrong people, and and you

:

can't cross that line.

:

And, you know, there's a lot of

:

attorneys out there that do this

:

work. Unfortunately, a lot of them

:

are like personal injury attorneys.

:

So they're looking at it as

:

like an injury, and it's not

:

it's it's sudden wealth,

:

but sudden wealth through

:

through a transaction

:

that there some tax and you have to

:

put in, you know, the planning

:

with future generations

:

to make sure that you we all have

:

this exemption out there right now

:

worth $13 million.

:

You know, if we use that $13

:

million properly, $13 million

:

can be used for children and

:

grandchildren. So there's no second

:

tax.

:

And so you want the right attorney

:

that has the experience to help you

:

with the right, you know, all these

:

disciplines that need to be done,

:

all these issues that need to be

:

dealt with.

:

In in that 13 million

:

exemption.

:

How does that mean you

:

can literally give away.

:

So not taxed on 13 million.

:

So back in the early mid

:

80s, 1980s

:

the exemption amount at that time

:

was $600,000.

:

And the first came out.

:

Then after a couple of years, well,

:

I was in law school and all that, it

:

increased a little bit each year and

:

following going up to about $1

:

million in 1990, whatever it was.

:

And then it it

:

suddenly started going together,

:

started increasing a little bit

:

more, and it got to,

:

$5 million.

:

And then in one year, 2010,

:

which coincidentally, was the year

:

that Steinbrenner passed away, the

:

owner of the Yankees, there was no

:

estate gift or transfer tax.

:

So it was an unlimited amount of a

:

wealth that you could transfer.

:

So when Mr. Steinbrenner died,

:

he transferred the whole Yankees

:

organization to his family, and

:

there was no transfer tax unlimited.

:

Well, right after that, the

:

exemption came back into place at $5

:

million. And it was there for a

:

little bit of time.

:

And then, you know,

:

I don't want to get politically

:

here, but when Trump took office, he

:

doubled all the exemptions.

:

So they went up to to $10 million,

:

and then they were still increased

:

for inflation. So right now, today

:

in 2024, it's a little

:

over $13 million that any one of

:

us can give away without any

:

transfer tax.

:

No gift tax, no no death

:

tax if we die.

:

So we have the ability to leave 13

:

million.

:

What's going to happen, though,

:

is in another year, in order for

:

Congress to pay for this stuff, they

:

have to put a sunset provision.

:

And so at the end of 2025,

:

it's going to go back down to $5

:

million. So but right now it's 13.

:

So you have 13 million

:

I have 13 million.

:

And we can use it.

:

But if we use it up, but by making

:

a gift to a family member then

:

we've used it. So I would rather

:

have that family member be part

:

of the winning group.

:

Okay. Like the group

:

ticket or part of the trust

:

part of the LLC holding the

:

fractional interest so they don't

:

have. So dad can say, hey,

:

I want to take care of my, my, my

:

four kids.

:

So dad claims the ticket and

:

he's got 60% in

:

each one of his four kids each get

:

10% each.

:

So that's 100%.

:

So we filed the claim that

:

way. They had 60 each

:

kid 10%, and we go in.

:

So now the kids pay their tax on

:

their 10% and then they

:

since tax on the 60%.

:

But dad now still has the whole 13

:

million that he can use.

:

So instead of using it to transfer

:

to his kids, he can help out a

:

brother.

:

He can use up.

:

He can do some generation skipping

:

planning for his grandchildren,

:

great grandchildren.

:

So there's no second tax on it.

:

So there's a lot of a lot of

:

planning that goes into this

:

that we want to take advantage of.

:

And that's why I keep saying I

:

use a forward looking method

:

for doing this.

:

And this is where a lot of

:

attorneys, they're just doing it for

:

the clay.

:

And you know, that's fine.

:

But their clients afterwards,

:

like I had a client.

:

Well, it turned out it wasn't my

:

client.

:

I met with the person.

:

I met with him in my office.

:

We talked and I made several

:

suggestions to them, and they said,

:

okay, I'll get back to you.

:

And then they call me and said,

:

well, we decided to go with this big

:

law firm, and they're planning.

:

And they claimed the ticket in a

:

and a Delaware LLC.

:

And I said, well, I call

:

the client up. I go, listen, I saw

:

that you claim the ticket and

:

Delaware LLC.

:

Congratulations, I said, however,

:

I never would have used the Delaware

:

LLC, and we talked about

:

it at the meeting. And I want you to

:

know that we discussed it and I said

:

I didn't like it, even though you

:

like the concept of hearing

:

about a Delaware LLC or a Wyoming

:

LLC.

:

Because you thought that that gave

:

you a little bit more protection,

:

but you created an entity

:

that has that's based in

:

a state that. US income taxes.

:

Delaware.

:

So when you claimed in Florida,

:

you know there's no Florida tax.

:

But since it's a Delaware entity

:

doing business in Florida has to pay

:

Delaware tax.

:

So subjected this big ticket

:

to Delaware income tax.

:

I just want you to be aware of it.

:

And so you probably

:

voluntarily paid $30

:

million for no reason.

:

You know, but I'm just telling you,

:

I never would have done that.

:

And I want to make sure, you know,

:

that I didn't discuss that with you

:

at the time.

:

And I told you not to do it that

:

way. And, if you need

:

help in future, give me a call, you

:

know, so we'll see what happens

:

there.

:

For people that are watching this or

:

listening to this, that play the

:

lottery. We have some people that

:

play in what are called pools,

:

groups of people that actually play.

:

So do you have

:

should they have rules or

:

should they have something

:

decided upon?

:

Like do they think?

:

I always tell people when they talk

:

about a lottery pool.

:

Pools are fun.

:

I mean, you can have a good time at

:

a pool, but a pool always has a deep

:

end. And in the deep end there's

:

risk. And so,

:

you know, you gotta look at a

:

lottery pool being the same thing.

:

So the concern I always

:

have a lottery pools is,

:

is what if someone got left out and

:

there's there are.

:

Several cases out there, you can

:

research where there was always

:

someone that got left out, and so

:

they end up filing an objection

:

filed with the state and the states.

:

I say, wait a minute until this gets

:

resolved. We're not paying anyone

:

because we don't know who we're

:

supposed to be paying.

:

So it drags on and on

:

and on, and eventually they

:

end up, you know, after after

:

hard feelings and things

:

being said, they eventually work

:

the person into the agreement and

:

give them something.

:

But everyone, everyone

:

had to wait a long time for it.

:

The problem that I have is, is

:

people don't do the pools the right

:

way. So there should be

:

a set of rules.

:

And the first thing is, is that

:

if we're all putting money in.

:

If you're not there.

:

Do you have a surrogate that has the

:

responsibility to put money in for

:

you because you know or

:

you're not there? So, you know,

:

let's say everyone put in 20 bucks

:

and there's, you know, five

:

people and then all put in 20 bucks,

:

we have a hundred bucks.

:

So we go to the store and we buy

:

$100 with lottery tickets.

:

And, you know, a couple of them

:

won a little bit of money.

:

We didn't win the jackpot.

:

But now we have, we have we

:

have $18 of winnings.

:

So what happens at $18, $18?

:

I could go out to everyone so they

:

all get their equal share.

:

Why did you continue to buy tickets

:

with at $18 and everyone else puts

:

in $20 again, and

:

then everyone puts in $20 again?

:

No, you got $36 and $40.

:

And what happens to this?

:

Is it a new lottery pool every time

:

you do this? Or is it different?

:

If someone doesn't show up, are they

:

included automatically?

:

Is there a surrogate that puts in

:

for them?

:

What if they if they were sick or

:

they were disabled for a while and

:

they were out of the office for a

:

couple of weeks on vacation

:

and the surrogate forgot to put it,

:

you know, so there's so

:

many. I just don't like lottery

:

pools. But if you're going to do it,

:

make sure it's in writing.

:

Make sure everyone has a copy of the

:

ticket ahead of time so that,

:

you know, because there was a case

:

as well where a lady

:

lady bought tickets for the group

:

like she was supposed to when she

:

bought her own tickets.

:

And then there was a

:

drawing and she said,

:

hey, one of the tickets won, she

:

said. But it wasn't part of the

:

group's tickets. It was my ticket.

:

And you know, no one knew.

:

She went out, bought tickets for

:

herself, you know, and you

:

need to make sure everyone has a

:

copy of the ticket and

:

they're all in.

:

And, you know, I just don't like

:

pools for that reason.

:

They have worked for some people.

:

But again, it's really a concern

:

as to if it goes on

:

and on and on.

:

What do you do with that money

:

that's been one. Is it been

:

disseminated or is it buying

:

more tickets?

:

And you have to have a rule that

:

says if you're not physically

:

in and you didn't you didn't do

:

something by 5:00 that day,

:

you're out, you know.

:

So it's very clear.

:

Yeah, that that

:

makes complete sense.

:

And, you know, we see these

:

major lottery jackpots.

:

Most people will wait until,

:

you know, weeks or months, sometimes

:

right before the deadline to claim

:

the prize.

:

But once in a while, and there was

:

just one in Oregon once

:

in a while, it happens very quickly,

:

within just a couple of days

:

where someone will go into the

:

lottery office right away with the

:

winning ticket, even if it's worth

:

hundreds of millions potentially.

:

So is that theoretically

:

time to get your ducks in a row, or

:

does it take.

:

What are your thoughts on that?

:

I think you know, to

:

if you win $1 million, you can go in

:

right away. It's not a big deal.

:

You win $100 million or $1 billion.

:

I really think to

:

do it the right way,

:

it takes at least two weeks.

:

Because you really have to be

:

talking to the client again,

:

find out where they're going to be.

:

Unless they live in this little

:

cocoon by themselves.

:

They don't have any friends.

:

They don't have any family.

:

You know, you really have

:

to take a look at the state law,

:

find out what you can and can't do.

:

Talk to the person about friends and

:

family and who they would want to

:

help. Again, they still have $13

:

million that they could have, that

:

they could have helped someone out

:

with who they want to do it with

:

their own tax dollars.

:

What do they want to do it by

:

spreading this wealth over family

:

members. So,

:

anyone that goes in that quickly,

:

what that tells me is that

:

they're they're just not a good

:

planner.

:

And if they're going to do that that

:

quickly, they're probably going to

:

be taken advantage of at some time

:

down the road because they're not

:

putting any time or effort into

:

into the process.

:

And if you don't plan,

:

appropriately, like

:

like I had a client, that one,

:

he called me up and said, hey, I

:

want a scratch off.

:

I go, great, how much is going to

:

cost? 5 million.

:

I go, that's fantastic.

:

Congratulations.

:

He calls me like December,

:

December 7th or something like that.

:

And I go, okay.

:

I go, I go, when

:

do you want to go? And he goes,

:

well, he does like to get up there

:

as soon as possible and go, oh,

:

that's a good idea. And he goes,

:

why? And I said, I'd rather go

:

in January rather than now because

:

the scratch off no one knows when to

:

scratch it off became winter.

:

Why would you want to pay your

:

income taxes so quickly when

:

you do it a couple weeks later, and

:

you got the use of the money for the

:

whole year before you, before you

:

pay the taxes, he goes, oh, that's a

:

great idea. I never thought about

:

it. So, you know, little things

:

like that. Just as to timing,

:

you want the right person there and

:

you want to have a game plan and you

:

want to follow the game plan.

:

We are here with Kurt Panouses.

:

Kurt, where can people find you

:

if they want to,

:

contact you about a future lottery

:

win or learn more about you

:

physically?

:

I'm in Florida.

:

My my long term wall practice

:

here as a board certified Wills

:

trust. The state's attorney is

:

Kurt@Panouseslaw.com.

:

It's my last name

:

Panouses law.com,

:

but I also am shifting over to

:

just being this lottery lawyer

:

CPA.

:

So I have a second and

:

I'm kind of using it more and more.

:

It's called Kurt

:

Kurt@lotterylawyerCPA

:

all one word lotterylawyercpa.com.

:

And my phone number for lottery

:

clients is area code (321) 676-3733.

:

That's (321) 676-3733.

:

That phone goes right here.

:

I'm the only one that gets it.

:

This is all I communicate with those

:

clients afterwards.

:

And I'll get them to send me

:

photos of the ticket.

:

And we do everything, like this way.

:

Set up a couple zoom calls.

:

Give me a couple weeks.

:

We're ready to go.

:

I drop everything and we go, and.

:

And, you know, I tell the clients

:

when we. When we do this, this

:

should be a fun experience.

:

This should be like going to Disney

:

World. Go to do the climb.

:

You should have fun.

:

Once we do this and you turn over

:

that ticket all the way, it's going

:

to be off your shoulders.

:

You'll be able to breathe.

:

You'll be able to sleep at night.

:

Just let's do it the right way.

:

So.

:

Yeah, I, as I said, I enjoy doing

:

this work.

:

I love the clients.

:

They're happy no one died.

:

You know, you get paid right away,

:

so it's always good.

:

Yeah, they're happy to pay.

:

And so, it's it's a great,

:

great niche that carved out and,

:

and, and it's a fun niche

:

as well at same time.

:

Absolutely, absolutely.

:

And you were surrounded by so many

:

winners.

:

For anyone that is playing

:

the lottery, that is listening or

:

watching to this today, what do you

:

have any advice for

:

lottery winners that are hoping

:

to win?

:

Well, you know the

:

the problem with play the lottery

:

is. Is it allows people

:

to dream, but

:

it's such a small chance of winning

:

that, you know, people sometimes get

:

their dreams get shattered.

:

I love the fact that the lottery is

:

out there because it allows people

:

to to to dream and hope

:

and and be thinking about

:

stuff. Just don't overspend

:

what you should be doing.

:

You know, especially when the

:

lottery gets with bigger.

:

Yeah, you can buy more

:

tickets, but it doesn't really

:

increase your chances, you know?

:

So either it's going to hit or it's

:

not going to hit.

:

You know, there's no there's

:

no difference between quick picks

:

and picking your own numbers.

:

Although I did have a client that

:

had won a couple times and,

:

you know, he played a certain game

:

and he kept picking his numbers and,

:

you know, he won, but he, he

:

he was spending $75,000

:

a year buying lottery tickets.

:

He said, I go, I go, that's

:

a lot of money. And he goes, well,

:

I'm not married, don't have any

:

kids.

:

I don't have any devices, I don't

:

drink, I don't do drugs.

:

You know, this is my this is my fun

:

time. And I go, okay, I understand

:

it. But $75,000

:

is a lot of money to be spending.

:

So don't overspend.

:

Do it with responsibility.

:

And, and if you happen to win,

:

you know, just stay yourself.

:

Don't don't change.

:

You know, keep that circle

:

as small as possible.

:

People that know get the right group

:

behind you or have someone that

:

knows how to put the group there.

:

And just.

:

Yeah, try not to to

:

talk about it, because that's how

:

you're going to get in trouble.

:

And be a target.

:

Just play within your means.

:

Basically.

:

That sounds very wise.

:

And it only takes one ticket for

:

a chance to win, as cliche

:

as that is, it's true.

:

And you can never win unless you buy

:

a ticket too, I found out, so.

:

That's right. That's right.

:

Curt Panas, thank you

:

so much for your time today.

:

Is there anything else that you

:

wanted to say today that I just

:

don't know enough to ask, or that

:

you just wanted to say today?

:

You know, you know,

:

again, the process.

:

You know, keep the circle small.

:

Don't sign the back of the ticket.

:

You know, get good quality people to

:

help you, get a support staff

:

in there to help you as well.

:

And and make this, this,

:

this decision about going to

:

the lottery that day.

:

Make sure it's planned out

:

and that it's a fun day for you

:

because, you know, it should be fun,

:

should be a day that you

:

enjoyed.

:

And make sure that you still

:

do this in a, in an environment

:

where you're protected, covered up,

:

whatever you need to do.

:

So that no one could find out who

:

you are.

:

It's all part of the planning

:

process. Get an experienced person

:

to help you and enjoy the

:

experience. It should be a lot of

:

fun.

:

Well, anything is possible.

:

Thank you so much for your time

:

today.

:

I greatly, greatly appreciate it.

:

We will link to your websites in the

:

description of this video.

:

If you're watching on YouTube or in

:

the show notes of the audio,

:

podcast. But Kurt Panouses.

:

He is a beacon of wisdom

:

and very, very experience.

:

We're so grateful here for your time

:

today. I really, really appreciate

:

it. Such a pleasure meeting you.

:

You're welcome. Thank you so much.

:

So that was my interview with Curt

:

Penzias. Now, what did you think

:

of this interview?

:

Let me know by commenting under

:

the YouTube video.

:

There is a link to it in the show

:

notes, along with all the other

:

important links.

:

I love checking out your comments.

:

As always, thank you so much for

:

listening today and thank

:

you for your support.

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About the Podcast

Lottery, Dreams and Fortune with Timothy Schultz
Lottery, Dreams and Fortune features stories of overcoming the odds and how people are doing it. It is hosted by Powerball winner and podcaster Timothy Schultz.
“Lottery, Dreams and Fortune” podcast delves into the extraordinary journeys of individuals who have triumphed against all odds. Join your host, Timothy Schultz, a Powerball winner turned journalist, as he uncovers awe-inspiring success stories and explores the fascinating intersection of sudden wealth, intuition, mindset, manifestation, and dreams come true.

Embark on an exhilarating ride with Schultz, who not only won the Powerball in 1999 but also takes you on a compelling exploration of the mindset of other lottery winners.

Brace yourself for inspiration as the podcast reveals the secrets of luck through exclusive interviews with lottery winners and people who have achieved extraordinary wins and success, alongside experts, scientists, and near-death survivors.

As featured on BBC, CNN, Fox News, Good Morning America, TODAY Show, TLC, and more, Timothy Schultz is a recognized media personality with a unique perspective on the convergence of destiny and possibility. Discover the limitless potential of the human spirit and prepare to be inspired—because on "Lottery, Dreams, and Fortune," the extraordinary is the norm.

Stream this must-listen podcast on popular platforms such as Youtube, Spotify, Amazon Music, Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, and more. Don't miss out on the chance to explore the boundless opportunities that await, including exclusive interviews with lottery winners and people who have achieved extraordinary wins and success. Anything is possible, and the proof lies in the incredible stories shared on this podcast. Tune in now!

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Timothy Schultz

Timothy Schultz is the host of 'Lottery, Dreams and Fortune'. In 1999, he won the Powerball before going back to college to study broadcast news and work on various productions. He's now combining his experience to launch this podcast.

Timothy has been featured in numerous media outlets including TLC (The Learning Channel), The Travel Channel, and Coast-to-Coast AM to name a few.